全国基本生活工资公开。现在来讨论全球基本生活工资(上)

04-15 21 12204 大卫王
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A nationalliving wage is on the table. Now let’s talk about a global living wage

全国基本生活工资公开。现在来讨论全球基本生活工资



Australia’s HarvesterJudgement of 1907 defined a living wage as ‘fair and reasonable’ paymentsufficient for an unskilled worker to support a family in reasonable comfort.

澳大利亚1907年的《收获者意见》将基本生活工资定义为“公平合理”的薪酬,可以让一名非技术工人在合理舒适的条件下养家糊口。

Theidea of the living wage is back on the political agenda. In the United Statesthe Democrats are proposing to double the federal minimum wage. In Australiathe federal Labor Party has promised to deliver a living wage.

基本生活工资的概念又回到了行政议程上。在美国,民主党提议将最低工资提高一倍。在澳大利亚,联邦工党承诺保障国民基本生活工资。

“A living wage should make sure people earn enough tomake ends meet, and be informed by what it costs to live in Australia today –to pay for housing, for food, for utilities, to pay for a basic phone and dataplan,” Opposition leader Bill Shorten said this week.

反对党领袖Bill Shorten本周表示:“应该了解现在澳大利亚生活的成本——衣、食、住、用、行的费用,以便保障人们的收入可以维持生计。”

Theprinciple of the living wage is the subject of my book published in January. Towrite the book I spent five years researching working conditions in countriesincluding Australia, Bulgaria, Cambodia, India and Thailand.

基本生活工资的原则是我一月份出版的书的主题。为了写这本书,我花五年时间研究了澳大利亚、保加利亚、柬埔寨、印度和泰国等国家的工作条件。

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Twelveyears later the principle was enshrined in international labour law, when theInternational Labour Organisation was established in 1919. It defined a livingwage as one “adequate to maintain a reasonable standard of life as this isunderstood in their time and country”.

12年后,当1919年国际劳工组织成立时,这一原则被载入了《国际劳工法》。它将基本生活工资定义为“符合国家时代标准可以维持合理的基本生活水平”。

Acentury on, Australia’s industrial relations system has long abandoned thecentral premise of the living wage. Around the world being paid enough to liveon remains elusive. We are all intimately connected to many of these workers.They have assembled the phones we handle. They have sewn our clothes.

一个世纪过去了,澳大利亚的劳资关系体系已脱离了基本生活工资的核心前提。在世界各地,要想获得足够的收入来维持生计仍然是一件难以实现的事情。工人们组装了我们的电话,工人们缝制了我们的衣服。我们的生活和这些工人都有着密切的联系。



Bangladeshi garmentworker Marium lost her left arm when an eight-storey building in Dhakacollapsed in April 2012. A reported 1,134 workers died in the tragedy.

2012年4月,孟加拉国一名服装工人Marium在达卡一栋8层建筑倒塌时失去了她的左臂。据报道,当时有1134名工人死于这场悲剧。

Womenin Bangladesh who make clothes for brands such as Big W, Kmart, Target andCotton On earn as little as 51 cents an hour, according to an Oxfam reportpublished last month.

乐施会上月发布的一份报告显示,孟加拉国为Big W、Kmart、Target和Cotton等品牌制作服装的女性每小时的工资仅为51美分。

Thereport is based on interview with 470 garment workers in Bangladesh andVietnam. Three-quarters of the Vietnam workers and all of the Bangladeshiworkers earned less than a living wage (as calculated by the Global Living WageCoalition).

根据对孟加拉国和越南470名服装工人的采访得出的报告显示四分之三的越南工人和所有孟加拉国工人的收入低于基本生活工资(由全球生活工资联盟计算)。

Fear of capital flight

害怕资本外逃

Itis very hard for workers to mobilise for higher wages in many countries aroundthe world. In January 5,000 garment workers in Bangladesh were sacked after going on strike for higher wages.During protests, police shot dead one worker. More than 50 others were injured.Striking garment workers in Cambodia have also been shot dead by police duringprotests.

世界上很多国家的工人很难争取到更高的工资。今年1月,孟加拉国5000名服装工人因要求加薪举行罢工而被解雇。在抗议期间,警方击毙了一名工人。另有50多人受伤。柬埔寨罢工的服装工人也在抗议活动中被警察击毙。



Cambodian garmentworkers assist a woman injured during a protest in Phnom Penh on January 3,2014.

2014年1月3日,柬埔寨服装工人在金边帮助一名在抗议活动中受伤的妇女。

Especiallyin price-sensitive industries, globalisation exerts strong pressure ongovernments to keep minimum wages low, lest any increase lead to “capitalflight”. This competition pits countries in a race to the bottom.

特别是对价格敏感的行业,全球化给政府施加了巨大的压力,要求政府将最低工资维持在较低水平,以免任何加薪导致“资本外逃”。这种状况使各国陷入了不良竞争。

Shouldlabour costs go up in Bangladesh, for example, its government fears garmentbrands moving production to, say, Ethiopia. It’s a legitimate fear; in my 15years of research I’ve seen whole garment factories dismantled and truckedacross borders to countries where the labour is cheaper.

例如,如果孟加拉国的劳动力成本上升,该国政府担心服装品牌将生产迁往埃塞俄比亚等国。这是一种合乎情理的恐惧;在我15年的研究中,我见过企业拆除整个服装厂,然后用卡车跨境运往劳动力更便宜的国家。

Cooperation is the answer

合作才是解决办法

Theobvious solution would be for countries to cooperate and raise minimum wagescollectively and incrementally (at an agreed percentage every year). Thisapproach would help overcome “first mover risk”. Business would have lessincentive to look for cheaper labour elsewhere.

显而易见的解决办法是各国进行合作,共同逐步提高最低工资(每年按商定的百分比)。这种方法将有助于克服“先行者风险”。企业在其他地方寻找更廉价劳动力的动力会减少。

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Emulating trade law

模仿贸易法

However,there is one area of international law that comes close to what we usuallythink of as law: international trade and investment law.

然而,有一个国际法领域接近法律:国际贸易和投资法。

Inaddressing goals like reducing tariffs, countries faced similar coordinationproblems. Beginning with the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, which cameinto effect in 1948, half a dozen major multilateral trade deals werenegotiated before the agreement in 1994 to establish the World TradeOrganisation.

从1948年生效的《关税和贸易总协定》开始,在解决降低关税等目标时,各国面临着类似的协调问题。在1994年建立世界贸易组织的协议之前,六项重要的多边贸易协定都是经过谈判达成的。

TheWTO has since adjudicated hundreds of disputes in which one nation has accusedanother of failing to meet its WTO commitments. Investors can also take statesto tribunals to seek compensation for unfair behaviour. States take thesetribunals very seriously.

此后,世贸组织对数百起争端进行了裁决。在这些争端中,一个国家指责另一个国家未能履行其对世贸组织的承诺。投资者还可以将政府告上法庭,要求对不公平行为进行赔偿。各国都非常重视这些法庭。

Whynot emulate this architecture of international trade law for living wages?

为什么不模仿这种国际贸易法的体系结构来提高基本生活工资呢?

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Insteadof having separate national conversations about living wages, now is a goodtime to start the conversation at a global scale.

现在是在全球范围内展开讨论的好时机,而不是就基本生活工资进行单独的全国性对话。
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Graeme Bennett
ThoseCambodian textile workers taking their government to court would be putting theirlives in jeopardy.
TheWest can’t fix itself, let alone impose solutions on the developing world. Unless you are proposing force be usedagainst recalcitrant governments it would seem we are just virtue signalling

那些柬埔寨纺织工人将他们的政府告上法庭将危及他们的生命。
西方国家无法独自解决问题,更不用说将解决方案强加给发展中国家了。除非你提议对顽固不化的政府使用武力,否则我们只是宣扬美德而已。

Kaplan Barla
No,We are suffering from cognitive dissonance.
Weare living in a resource rich continent with only 25 million people, and herewe are talking about:
“A living wage should make sure people earn enough to make ends meet,and be informed by what it costs to live in Australia today – to pay forhousing, for food, for utilities, to pay for a basic phone and data plan,”
strugglingto make ends meet ..hahaaa … I’m going insane :)

不, 我们的认知是错误的。
我们生活在只有2500万人口的资源丰富的大陆上,这里我们讨论的是:
“应该了解现在澳大利亚生活的成本——衣、食、住、用、行的费用,以便保障人们的收入可以维持生计。”
努力维持生计。哈哈哈…我要疯了:)

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Kaplan Barla
…or as Norway does.
Australiais famous for its commodity wealth. You name it, Australia more often than nothas it in abundance. Australia recently overtook Qatar to become the world’slargest exporter of gas (LNG). And yet, we pay so much more than our customersdo in Asia. Australian gas is being sold for less to overseas customers than tolocal customers despite the costs of liquefaction and shipping.
Thisis absurd!
So,
Theproblem is NOT about HOW much money we should have in our pockets to pay forbasic needs.
Theproblem is about WHO owns and controls resources and sets the price for basicneeds.
(ofcourse you know all this but I keep saying this for the sake of others.)

…或者像挪威那样。
澳大利亚以丰富的商品资源而闻名。你可以说,澳大利亚拥有丰富的资源。澳大利亚最近取代卡塔尔成为世界上最大的天然气出口国。然而,我们支付天然气的费用比我们在亚洲的客户高得多。尽管液化和运输成本高昂,但澳大利亚天然气的海外销售价格仍低于本地客户。
这太荒谬了!
因此,
问题不在于我们口袋里应该有多少钱来支付基本需求。
问题在于世卫组织拥有和控制资源并为基本需求设定价格。
(当然你知道这一切,但我一直是为了别人才这么说的。)

Mark Osborne
Wedo own the resources. The states (Crownor us) own them. They lease tenements toorganisations with the skills, knowledge and investment power to monitise whatare effectively rocks. The states earnroyalties on the profits as a result.
Ifyou believe this is a simple process, then go find a rock and sell it.
I’mnot saying it is perfect but your statements are factually incorrect.

我们拥有资源。国家(王权或我们)拥有它们。它们将不动产租给那些拥有技能知识和投资能力的机构,这些机构能够利用岩石赚钱。因此,各州从这些利润中收取特许权使用费。
如果你觉得这是一个简单的过程,那就去找一块岩石然后把它卖掉试试。
我不是说它是完美的,但你的说法事实上是不正确的。

Kaplan Barla
Whichstatements?

哪种说法?

Kaplan Barla回复Mark Osborne
You won’t answer, Okay. Then I will answer. Thestatement you are referring to is this one: The problem is about WHO owns andcontrols resources and sets the price for basic needs.
Confrontedwith a phrase I used in a non-literal sense for rhetorical effect, Mark Osbornesought safety in semantics.
Ofcourse he’s right.
I’m“factually incorrect”.
I’mfactually incorrect, too, when I say “we sold public utilities to privatesector”. In fact, we did not sell them. We leased them to private companies fora certain number of years.
Weleased our utilities to private companies because we wanted to get shafted somuch.
Duckingsemantics! – My butt hurts.

你不会回答的,好吧。我来回答。您所指的说法是这样的:问题在于世卫组织拥有和控制资源并为基本需求设定价格。
对于我使用一个非字面意义的修辞短语,Mark Osborne要求在语义上准确无误。
他当然是对的。
我“其实不正确”。
当我说“我们把公共事业卖给私营部门”时,我也是不正确的。事实上,我们没有出售它们。我们只是将它们租给私营公司一定年限。我们想得到更多的好处所以把公用设施租给私营公司。
回避语义学!——肉疼。

ltaaaTxt

Inmentioning this, Shorten undermines his own argument. Why not simply addressthe mechanisms that have made housing, food, utilities and basic phone and dataplans so expensive?

shorten提到的这一观点自相矛盾。为什么不直接解决造成衣、食、住、用、行费用高的制度呢?

Tim Arden
umbecause its due to failures of government policy. This way Shorten makes itsomeone else’s problem to deal the with symptom rather than as a politiciantaking responsibility for failure of government policies, the cause, and takingresponsibility for fixing policy failures.

嗯,因为这是政府政策失败造成的。这种方式缩短了处理问题的时间,而不是作为一个政治家对政府政策的失败、原因和修复政策失败承担责任。

Kaplan Barla
Insteadof addressing, why not look at other countries where they perfected themechanism – Nordic Model?
Arewe stupid in Australia?

与其解决这个问题,不如看看其他制度完善的国家——北欧模式?
在澳大利亚的我们是傻瓜吗?

Noel Bugeia
Forsome reason a series of posts were moderated out.
Someonesaid the Nordic model was based on oil revenues and when they dried up theNordic model would go the way of the dodo.
Thewhole of Scandanavia, not just Norway do the welfare state right.
Mycomment was that while this Might be true for Norway and Denmark, Sweden andFinland have no oil at all. How can the last two be explained sans Oil?
(Can’tfir the life of me understand why these comments (and not just mine) wereouted. Relevant and a legitimatedebating point.)

由于某种原因,一些帖子被删减了。
有人说北欧模式是建立在石油收入的基础上的,当石油枯竭时,北欧模式将走上绝路。
不仅仅是挪威,整个斯堪达纳维亚半岛的福利国家都做得很好。
我想说的是,尽管挪威和丹麦可能是这样,但瑞典和芬兰根本没有石油。没有石油,如何解释后两者是建立在石油收入的基础上的呢?

Kaplan Barla回复Noel Bugeia
Ithappens to everyone. Bite the bullet, as I sometimes do in this blog.

每个人都有这种情况。就像我在博客里经常做的那样,咬紧牙关面对困难。

Shelley Marshall回复Matthew WilliamTomczyk
Ithink that is a great point. What do youhave in mind in terms of addressing increases in food, housing, utilities andbasic phone and data plans?

我认为这是一个很好的观点。在解决衣、食、住、用、行费用的增长方面,您有什么建议?

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Matthew William Tomczyk
“Youappear to be attacking the only ones at least trying to resolve very real wageissues.”

“你似乎是在攻击那些试图解决工资问题的人。”

Shortenhimself is implying that the issue isn’t wages, but the fact that wages areabsorbed by a handful of consumer goods. Shorten is turning this around, byclaiming it’s employers who aren’t paying enough, when in reality Australiansare some of the highest earners in the world.
IfShorten said that he would begin dismantling every policy that causes highproperty prices I’d be all for it.

Shorten的意思是,问题不在于工资,而在于工资被少数消费品所控制。Shorten扭转了这一局面,他声称雇主支付的工资不够,而实际上澳大利亚人是世界上收入最高的人群之一。
如果Shorten说他将要废除所有导致高房价的政策,我会全力支持。

Tony Dickson回复Matthew WilliamTomczyk
Actually,I suggest a significant aspect of inflated housing prices is consequent to theHowards Govt’s idiotic “reforms” to Keating’s original CGT, which included the50% discount. However, it is arguable that of more significance was doing awaywith indexation of capital gains.The result of this was to make inflationtaxable, rather than real increases in asset prices. This strongly discouragedlong term investment in housing stock in favour of quick turnover speculation.
Thereare so many ways in which neo-liberal ideologues demonstrate a lack ofunderstanding of economics.
Iagree that negative gearing is another significant factor. However, effectivelylegislating a cogent distinction between legitimate business financing costsand speculative borrowing is not easily achieved without risking collateraldamage.

事实上,我认为房价上涨的一个重要原因是由于霍华德政府愚蠢的“改革”保罗·基延(澳大利亚总理)原先所执行的资本收益税,其中包括50%的折扣。然而,更重要的是取消资本收益指数化,这是有争议的。导致对通货膨胀征税,而不是对资产价格的实际上涨征税。这严重阻碍了对房地产股票的长期投资,而更倾向于投机快速的成交量。
新自由主义理论家在很多方面都表现出对经济学缺乏理解。
我同意负扣税是另一个重要因素。然而,要立法区分合法的企业融资成本和投机性借款之间的切实差别,不造成附带损害的风险是不容易实现的。

Kaplan Barla
“A living wage should make sure people earn enough to make ends meet,and be informed by what it costs to live in Australia today – to pay forhousing, for food, for utilities, to pay for a basic phone and data plan,”

“应该了解现在澳大利亚生活的成本——衣、食、住、用、行的费用,以便保障人们的收入可以维持生计。”

Amazing!How is this possible?
Gas:privatized
Water:privatized
Electricity:privatized
Telecommunication:privatised
Thesecorporations are gonna feel sorry for us and reduce prices?

惊人!这怎么可能?
气体:私有化
水:私有化
电力:私有化
电信:私有化
这些公司会为我们感到抱歉并降低价格吗?

ltaaaTxt

Glenda Bunning
OurGovernment has deliberately allowed colonisation of Australia by multinationalcorporations and home grown service providers and contractors. The PublicService has been rebuilt as a far right deliverer of ideology.
Privateersstrip assets, harvest as much as possible and then leave the third world theycreat behind taking off with profits.
Mumblingabout living wages and believing we have any power left is a waste of time now.
Hitlerused privatisation as a tool in his conquest of Germany and control of workers.At least he had a plan and supported favourites at home. Unlike our Politicalsalespersons who seem unaware of what they have done or the consequences. Thoseconsequences will not be easily undone now though after contracts and dealshave been signed locking winner/loser positions.

我国政府故意允许多国公司和本国的服务供应商和承包商在对澳大利亚进行殖民统治。公共服务被重建为意识形态的极右翼支持者。
私掠者尽可能多地掠夺资产,然后离开他们创造的第三世界,带着利润起飞。
现在相信我们还有任何权力,抱怨基本生活工资是在浪费时间。
希特勒利用私有化作为征服德国和控制工人的工具。至少他有一个计划,支持国内最受欢迎的人。不像我们的政治推销员,他们似乎不知道自己做了什么或造成了什么后果。尽管合同和交易签订后锁定了赢家/输家的位置,但这些后果现在不会轻易消除。

Enzo Fable回复Garry Baker
Iwould have thought the main reason for Shorten’s/Labor’s demand for a livingwage instead of a minimum wage was to recognise the very issues you mentionrelated to privatisation. Similarly, Shorten repeatedly calls for a fairerprocess to enable consideration for higher pay packets.
TheFair work Commission is beholden to the parameters the Government of the daysets.
Lookno further than the current government as the greatest obstacle. All data showsthe correlation between the current governments reign and wage growth goingbackwards and not keeping pace with living cost issues you raise.

我认为Shorten (反对党领袖)/劳工组织要求领基本生活工资而不是最低工资的主要原因是你提到的与私有化有关的问题。Shorten反复呼吁采用更公平的流程来提高工资待遇。
公平交易委员会受政府参数所约束。
目前最大的障碍是政府。所有的数据都显示当前政府统治与工资增长相关联,而工资增长与你提出的生活成本问题不一致。

Enzo Fable
“Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!”

“全世界无产阶级,团结起来!”

Trev Astle
Wow—nowonder that there is no such thing as a Free Trade deal!

哇,难怪没有自由贸易协议!

John Kampert
Indeed,there are only “Make the corporations rule” deals.

事实上,只有“制定公司规则”的交易。

Dean Taylor
Ilove this in principle, but how do you overcome the ‘agent’s fees’ problem?
Here,‘skilled’ migrants in areas with very common skills pay a significantproportion of their wages to agents to secure them a job, much of which thengoes back to the employer. What’s to stop companies in Bangladesh engagingagent’s to rake back a chunk of the wages for a $10 or $20 per day job?

原则上我很喜欢这一点,但是你如何解决‘代理费’的问题呢?
在普通技能地区,“有技能”的移民将他们工资的大部分支付给中介机构,以确保他们得到一份工作,而这些工资的大部分又回到雇主手中。有什么办法能阻止孟加拉国的公司雇佣代理商从每天10美元或20美元的工作中拿回一大笔工资呢?

Shelley Marshall回复Dean Taylor
Youraise a very valid point in my mind. Agents fees are indeed a big problem in many countries around theworld. Families go into a lot of debt topay agents to place family members in work.
Itis my understanding that agents thrive in environments of high inequality, whencertain sectors pay a lot more than other sectors. People are willing to payagent fees because of the rewards of working in that sector. However, when minimum wages work to equalisethe pay of low wage workers, agents are less attractive.

我觉得你的观点很有道理。世界上许多国家的代理费确实是一个大问题。家庭为了给家庭成员安排工作而欠下大量的债务。
我的理解是,代理人是在高度不平等的环境中发展壮大的,某些行业的薪酬要比其他行业高得多。为了能到薪酬高的行业去工作,人们愿意支付代理费用。然而,当最低工资与低工资工人的工资持平时,代理人就不那么有吸引力了。

Margaret Quillen
Anexcellent idea whose time has come. The vehicle for creating this transition toa humanised economy, as distinct from a corporatised one, is co-operation.International trades-unionism will be essential as will be the revival ofinternational friendship societies, people’s tours of other countries toexamine and understand living conditions and develop common programs.
Democracywill be the governing principle of this process.
Ifthe ruling classes oppose this then they need to be taught that there is nosafe place to run or hide from the people’s wrath.

好主意,时机已到。与企业化经济不同,实现这种向人性化经济转型的途径是合作。国际贸易联盟将是必不可少的,复兴国际友好协会、人们到其他国家考察和了解生活条件和制定共同计划的旅行也将是必不可少的。
民主将是这一进程的主导原则。
如果统治阶级反对这样做,就必须告诉他们,没有安全的地方可以逃避或躲避人民的愤怒。

ltaaaTxt

Noel Bugeia
Itwould only not work because there are too many shrill voices on the right whowould decry giving free money to “shirkers and lay abouts”. There are enough of them now who wouldprefer there was no social security system.
TheRepublicans in the US would love to dismantle the whole show. And I think thesame thinking applies here, deep down.
Unlessof course, you are a big company and you want tax breaks and direct governmentassistance to establish or grow your business. But no governing regulations ofcourse. That would stifle capitalism and interfere in the market…

这样子行不通,因为有太多的右翼尖锐的声音会谴责给“逃避者和闲散者”免费花钱。现在有足够多的人宁愿没有社会保障制度。
美国的共和党人很想彻底毁掉这场秀。我认为同样的想法也适用于这里。
当然,除非你是一家大公司,你想要税收优惠和政府直接援助来建立或发展你的业务。而且没有监管规定。那将干预市场,扼杀资本主义……

Shelley Marshall回复Matt Arthurs
Thanksfor your comment. Which part is‘childish’, in your view, if you think a living wage for all would be great?

谢谢你的评论。在你看来,如果你认为所有人的基本生活工资都很好,那么哪个部分是“幼稚的”?

Shelley Marshall回复Mick Shadwick
Thanksfor your comment. Which part wouldn’twork, in your opinion? Is it that thereis unlikely to ever be political will?

谢谢你的评论。你认为哪部分行不通?难道永远不可能有政治意愿吗?

Shelley Marshall回复Kien Choong
Thanks. The proposal depends on countries agreeing toraise the minimum wage, as a starting point. The point is to have coordination around doing so.

谢谢。这一提议取决于各国是否同意将提高最低工资作为起点。关键是要在这方面进行协调。

Kumudhu Alwis
India’sopposition is proposing a living wage for its billions. Is the writer taken apage from the Indian elections?

印度反对派提议为其数十亿人提供基本生活工资。作者是否借鉴了印度大选的经验?

Shelley Marshall回复Kumudhu Alwis
Thanksfor your comment. I have indeed takeninspiration from India. A living wage is enshrined in the IndianConstitution. Under law, India’s minimumwage is supposed to be a living wage. The problem is that it has not beenincreased in line with living costs. However, there is very good evidence thatthe Indian minimum wage has made a great deal of difference to workers in termsof lifting them out of poverty.

谢谢你的评论。我确实从印度那里得到了灵感。印度宪法规定了基本生活工资。根据法律,印度的最低工资应该是基本生活工资。问题是它并没有随着生活成本的增加而增加。然而,有证据表明,印度的最低工资在帮助工人脱贫方面对他们产生了很大的影响。

Enzo Fable
Thefact the concept of a living wage may be adopted is excellent however is onlythe first step. The inevitable political angle always remains that theGovernment of the day defines the rules for the government entity as to theparameters it can apply. There would be little doubt that this is why India’sliving wage has not increased in line with living costs. That likely won’t happenuntil it is again politically expedient.

事实上,基本生活工资的观念可能被采用是好的,但这只是第一步。政治观点始终是政府定义了政府实体可以应用的参数规则。这就是为什么印度的基本生活工资没有与生活成本同步增长的原因。在它再次成为政治权宜之计之前,这可能不会发生。

ltaaaTxt

Kumudhu Alwis
“adequate to maintain a reasonable standard of life as this is understoodin their time and country”.
Thequestion is do the farm workers in these countries earn enough to feed theclothes workers?
Wein the West are supremists

“足以维持他们国家和时代所理解的合理的基本生活水平”。
问题是,这些国家的农场工人挣的钱足够养活制衣工人吗?
我们西方人是至上主义者。

Graeme Bennett
Iwas about to make that point. InAustralia in 1907 a much larger proportion of the population was living off theland. My paternal grandfather had areally tough existence with his father abandoning the family when mygrandfather was 14. My father tells thestory of being asked in class about the books they had at home. None. A living wage in 1907 would seem to have been either a judicial fantasyor brought into being to benefit unionists.

我正要说明这一点。1907年,澳大利亚大多数人靠土地为生。我祖父14岁时,他的父亲抛弃了他的家庭,我的祖父过着非常艰难的生活。我父亲讲述了在课堂上被问到家里有什么书。他的答案是一本也没有。1907年的基本生活工资要么是司法幻想,要么是为了让工会主义者受益而制定的。

Shelley Marshall
Whatis the argument against paying workers a living wage for their work? How would you justify paying someone below aliving wage if they worked hard and full-time?

反对为工人的工作支付基本生活工资的理由是什么?如果一个人全职努力工作,却拿着低于基本生活工资的薪水,你怎么解释?

Graeme Bennett
Whereto start? It is like the 30 year oldworkers at McDonalds in the GFC demanding an increase in their wages as if astart-up job was a career. If workerswant something they are responsible for reaching their goals. If you want to kill off a lot more retailers(a dozen or so chains over the last year) increasing minimum wages by 10% wouldbe a great start.
As I mentioned a legislated ‘living’ wagewould not apply to farmers or for that matter small business owners. Extending the concept globally would ensuremany underdeveloped nations never got to put their foot on the lowest rung ofthe ladder. You seem to believe textilesare a natural part of every countries’ mix of industries as if there is someperfect model that all countries should share. It doesn’t work. Economies evolveover time. Countries should specialisewhere they have an advantage and trade with those who have differentadvantages.

从哪里开始?就像30岁的麦当劳工人在全球金融危机中要求加薪,就好像创业是一种职业一样。如果员工想要什么,他们有责任实现自己的目标。如果你想消除更多的零售商(去年大约有十几家连锁店),将最低工资提高10%将是一个良好的开端。
正如我提到的,立法规定的“生活”工资不适用于农民或小型企业家。在全球范围内推广这一观念,将使许多不发达国家永远不会踏上阶梯的最底层。你似乎认为纺织品是每个国家产业组合中的一个自然组成部分,就好像所有国家都应该分享某种完美的模式。不管用的。经济是随着时间的推移而发展的。各国应专注于自己具有优势的领域,并与具有不同优势的国家进行贸易。

ltaaaTxt

David Jenkins
Companyprofits have grown on average by 5.1% p.a over the last ten years, compared to2.6% for wages. At the same time the wages share of national income has fallenwhile the profit share has increased.
Sure,profits are volatile over a year compared to wages, so you have to be cautiousabout data that is relatively short term - but the longer term trend is clear.As Matthias Cormann himself pointed out, the industrial relations laws we havehave been specifically designed to achieve exactly this outcome

在过去的十年里,公司利润平均每年增长5.1%。工资只增长2.6%。与此同时,工资在国民收入中所占的比例有所下降,而利润所占的比例有所增加。
当然,与工资相比,一年的利润波动较大,因此你必须对相对短期的数据保持谨慎态度——但长期趋势是明显的。正如MatthiasCormann本人所指出的,劳资关系法则是专门为实现这一目标而制定的。

Brad Elliott
Ithink you are assuming that an international minimum wage would be the same inall countries although the article talks about percentage increases. It wouldnot be fair to have the same minimum wage in all countries due to the verydifferent cost of living structures. At present wages are forming a decreasingshare of GDP while profit is taking an increasing share driving up inequality.
Capitalis free to move while labour is not. There needs to be modifications from thepure model that you propose. US workers have not had a real increase in pay forover 50 years even though there has been large increases in the GDP and profits.As Australia signs up to more extreme trade deals we can expect the sameunhealthy result as experienced there.

我认为你是在假设国际最低工资在所有国家都是一样的,尽管这篇文章谈到了百分比的增长。由于生活费用结构的差异,在所有国家实行同样的最低工资是不公平的。目前,工资在国内生产总值中所占的比例正在下降,而利润所占的比例正在增加,从而加剧了不平等。
资本可以自由流动,而劳动力却不能。需要从您所建议的纯模型中进行修改。尽管国内生产总值和利润大幅增长,但美国工人的工资在过去50多年里从未出现过真正的增长。随着澳大利亚签署更为极端的贸易协定,我们可以预期,其不健康的结果将与澳大利亚一样。

Brad Elliott
50years is a long period of no real wages growth in the US. Nothing to do withminers there. Everything to do with earlier start of extreme free trade.

在美国,50年是一段没有实际工资增长的漫长时期。与那里的矿工无关。一切都与早期的极端自由贸易有关。

Graeme Bennett回复Brad Elliott
No,not assuming that.
Theanswer is simple. Everyone can become aconsultant, set up a company and join in the feasting.
Slightlymore seriously America continues to attract low skilled emigrants from Southand Central America. They must have aproblem absorbing that flow. Increasingwages would only accelerate the inflow. The instability would become too much. Add to that increased levels of unemployment and the issues that flowfrom that and I can’t imagine a good result.

不,我不这么认为。
答案很简单。每个人都可以成为一名顾问,成立一家公司,参加宴会。
稍微严重一点的是,美国继续吸引来自南美和中美洲的低技能移民。他们吸收这种流动的移民一定有问题。增加工资只会加速资金流入。不稳定会变得更大。再加上失业率的上升和由此产生的问题,我无法想象会有什么好结果。

ltaaaTxt

Shelley Marshall
Thecall for a living wage has come from the economic south, not developedcountries. Check outhttps://asia.floorwage.org/ for example.

要求基本生活工资的呼声来自经济发达的南方,而不是发达国家。例如,请访问https://asia.floorwage.org/。

Jay Somasundaram
Thankyou for raising a major social issue and proposing a novel solution.
Butis it in the interest of the poorest countries to raise their minimum wage?Their wages are a competitive advantage, and global businesses are willing toput up with poor infrastructure because they make up those costs with wages.
Ifa poor country institutes a minimum wage, the global business would move itsproduction elsewhere and the country would be left worse off. Trade agreementsare achieved because both countries see mutual benefits and increases in trade.Forcing the poorest countries to sign or else be embargoed is bullying.
Itis not a question asking the poorest nations to put aside their “immediateself-interest”. Without the money coming in, they have no hope of feedingthemselves, much less investing in the infrastructure that would make them morecompetitive. On, the other hand, if we provided aid - support for those whowould be unemployed and building infrastructure - we may get a fair deal.

感谢您指出一个重要的社会问题并提出新的解决办法。
但提高最低工资是否符合最贫穷国家的利益?他们的工资是一种竞争优势,全球企业愿意忍受糟糕的基础设施,因为他们可以用工资来弥补这些成本。
如果一个贫穷的国家提供最低工资,全球企业将把生产转移到其他地方,这个国家的情况就会变得更糟。达成贸易协定是因为两国都看到了互惠互利和贸易增长的迹象。强迫最贫穷的国家签署协议,否则就会被禁止,这是恃强凌弱。
这并不是一个要求最贫穷国家搁置“眼前利益”的问题。如果没有资金流入,他们就没有养活自己的希望,更不用说投资于能让他们更具竞争力的基础设施了。另一方面,如果我们提供援助——为那些可能失业的人提供支持,并建设基础设施——我们可能会得到一个公平的交易。
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